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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 10:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bill Ayers for citizen of the year!

All the stuff you are saying is superfluous.

I don't see how me stating that I have held opposing viewpoints in the past, but learned from experience that I was wrong is extraneous information. It solidly builds the foundation of my position and prevents you from trying to invalidate my argument on a factual or relevant basis.

The point by me was simple and limited to just Edsel's reaction.

Edsel said "Ineptitude does not negate intent."

I prefer big earl's version but I although I see your point on the semantics, blowing shit up and being convinced nobody is going to get hurt is an ignorant assumption, regardless of intent. This wasn't soupy sales telling kids to mail in their parents money, this was someone telling people to kill their parents, see the difference? And people did die, manslaghter versus premeditated murder is still someone losing their lives, whether the victim was the perp is irrelevant- people died because of the actions and ideology shared by ayers and apparently many others in "academia" who probably have plenty of money and don't care of their own taxes go up or the opposing side's arguments are silenced with "fairness" in media and other "community" related mandates.

That point is inapplicable because Ayers intentionally planned NOT to kill anyone! Not that I agree with them, but it's a matter of keeping facts straight.

I am glad he tried not to intentionally kill anyone, on the same argument did bush intentionally murder our own troops? Did kennedy? FDR? People die all the time, setting bombs off on public buildings which happen to be run by ourselves that might injure someone is ok if you didn't plan on killing anyone? A drunk driver didn't mean to mow down someone in an intersection either but vehicular manslaughter exists regardless of intent.

Ok? They were not inept at all all, because however misguided their reactions they intended NOT to kill anyone.

At least you recognize they were misguided, the failed at their mission of not killing anyone though. I found 4 examples so far that look pretty convincing to me that they are actually dead.

Your current point is not connected to the thread in any obvious way. You don't who has grown up on food stamps, nor do you seem to realize that racism and other bias exists and that other monkeys are involved beside you.

Again you discount my point in trying to disount my point. A viscious cycle indeed. I know I grew up on them, I never claimed to know who else did. I learned to make sure I never had to use them. I watched what I was subjected to and swore to rise above it. Welfare is a crutch not a career.

I don't know racism exists? Have you ever been jumped by a gang at school because of your race? Have you ever been smashed over the head with a beer bottle by a skinhead for walking around the wrong corner? Have you ever heard jeremia wright? Have you ever watched the history channel? Did you see my videos showing klansman byrd and the racist symbols of the democratic party? I am pretty sure all 3 videos clearly show racism of all sorts, not sure why you are even saying that, it makes no sense.

It's you who is the monkey... want a bananna? What other people are involved in my situation? I'd love to know who they are and if they have any money to help me out right now, I hope I qualify unlike the last 10 times I tried to get financial aid for school and other free stuff people all around me seem to get.

We aren't individual always. We share air, water, etc and money to perform common tasks. It's valid to question how the common good is funded.

Maybe you are responding to someone else because I don't get this one, but here goes. Of course that's a valid questions, who said it wasn't? As for individuals sharing air and water, the local ordinances in my town don't allow me to pollute or interfere with my neighbor's air, water or property. This is based on ownership of property by individuals and a government elected by those people. I don't think we are on opposing sides of things on this, but maybe I'll read it again.

Right now it seems strange to me that the public bailout billionaires because their errors MIGHT cause a recession. It seems more like extortion in the last gasp of a permanent Republican majority.

I think the felons on wall street that had any fault in the mess should be in orange jumpsuits. I think the banks that made bad loans should go bankrupt. I think the homeowners that made $40k per year but went with stated income stated asset, negatively amortized loans and got into $400k houses deserve to lose them. I think anyone who broke the law should suffer the consequences and anyone who made faulty laws should be voted out of office. I was embarrased at what both candidates did in supporting that socialist bailout.

I ran into someone the other day who asked me how that bailout treated me. I thought they were joking but they actually think small business owners and self employed people got checks or something. People are so uninformed it's outrageous.

I suggest you all vote for mckinney and send a strong message to both parties. Retardation. But it's pointless because I finished the videos and have moved on to making music again solely for the point of making music, here is the proof:

http://www.archive.org/details/castlebrigantine

Have a very crappy halloween, I imagine I will!

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 11:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bill Ayers for citizen of the year!

If you can't accept a simple point (Ayers *intentionally* NOT ineptly had 0 kills), then you're just being difficult.

I think it's true that the current crop of conservatives are addicted to misinformation.


Instead jump around with a lot of handwaving paragraphs, forgetting about your phrase about you and your monkey, is odd. When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there, as they say. The point is that it's not just you -- the Mississippi River is not your neighbor's water.

You can't expect people to lift themselves up when many are pushing them down. And in the end, the mercy you take, is equal to the mercy you make.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 11:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: McCain for socialist of the year!

It's hardly a socialist bailout if you're only covering the richest of the gamblers!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 11:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: McCain for socialist of the year!

Socialism:

1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

As you can see in item one, it is a totally accurate description. It also would apply to universal healthcare and any other involuntary intervention by government into the free markets.

Unless you deny that those crooked CEO's in turn employed thousands of employees, cleaners, and service technicians to run their offices in addition to the employees who in turn comsumed goods and services from shoeshiners to grocery store cashiers and all the way down to garbage collections, public utilities etc.

The end result was an artificial reward for poor performance which is right in line with the fundamental aspect of imposing a higher percentage of a tax burden on the more successful and paying welfare recipients more for each child born. What happened to liberals and birth control? What is the big deal with rubbers? I won't even wank without them in fear of my hand getting pregnant. God might punish me with a 6th digit.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 12:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: McCain for socialist of the year!

>>>As you can see in item one, it is a totally accurate description. It also would apply to universal healthcare and any other involuntary intervention by government into the free markets. >>>

Your definition is useless, even if it is from a dictionary.

You'd do better to look at Wikipedia definition, and not one from a right wing economist.

You CANNOT characterize the bailout as socialist, since the bailout mainly benefits the few at the top. By your definition, there can be no non-socialist army and any other sort of government agency -- despite the fact that there ARE social goods!

Maybe you don't realize this but economic theory is severely weak at its foundations because of its assumptions. At the micro level there are no perfectly rational actors and there is no perfect information. It gets worse from there.

If you look at what the Nobel Prizes in Economics were really for in English, you'd be surprised how simple it is. If you want to see what economists are up against, check out this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biases

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 12:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: McCain for socialist of the year!

Wikipedia is the word of god? Please it's the standard definition, trying to change the meanings of words is a bit strong of a tactic to prove a point!

I CAN categorize ANYTHING ANYWAY that I choose, we still have the constitution.

Oh darn, the opening lines from wikipedia:

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.

Why we would want a society that benefits eagles is beyond me. Ask steve winwood if his taxes are going up? What about grape ape and courageous cat?

You are losing it, and I don't mean just this argument. You are reaching for straws made of pixie dust and the debri is clouding your judgment.

More wisdom from wiki:

Socialism is not a discrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalization, sometimes opposing each other.

Social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries in mixed economies combined with tax-funded welfare programs

Economically, socialism denotes an economic system of state ownership and / or worker ownership of the means of production and distribution.

This is from the churchill that did not call the dead on 9/11 "little eichmans"

. . a socialist policy is abhorrent to the British ideas of freedom. Socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism and the object worship of the state. It will prescribe for every one where they are to work, what they are to work at, where they may go and what they may say. Socialism is an attack on the right to breathe freely. No socialist system can be established without a political police. They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.

Thanks for referring me to even better sources to support my argument!

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: McCain for socialist of the year!

Quoting Winston Churchill is one of the last refuges of scoundrels. I forgot the context of this; maybe it was during tea overlooking the slaughter of the Sudanese:

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."


And you've addressed nothing of the possibility of having a truly free market or that any form of government is really socialism.

Sometimes you right wingers seem as naive, or is it manipulative, as the Marxists.

This post was modified by spacedface on 2008-10-23 19:42:56